Sturdy folks who worship their own god in their own way, hard working and while their craftsmanship may not be up to Elf or Dwarf standards they tend to build sturdy.  Can't say as I blame them for being mistrustful of Human race, we are generally a little rough on them and they can tell as many tales about our blood thirsty raids and thefts against their people as we tell about their predations against us.  I know if I had to face a bear with only a stick I would rather have an Orc farmer at my side than a Human scribe. 

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) Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

Depends on what Orcs you're talking about. :)  Tolkien-esque Orcs are quite unpleasant.  Also, Burning Wheel Orcs like the one I wrote up, the "night stalker".  He's unworthy of an actual name, and like all Orcs, he's a horny, hideously deformed, cannabalistic freak with deadly fangs and claws who is allergic to the sun, but can see in the dark and speak the evil language shared by Trolls, Great Wolves, and some other vile creatures.  On a personal level, he instinctively obeys the crack of a whip, he has learned to hide from his brutal overseers (and their whips), he can lead a charge bravely (or at least less cowardly), he has a tendency to steal and is good at scavenging what he needs from his surroundings, and he runs extra fast when fleeing in terror.  He also, like all Orcs, harbors a palpable, simmering Hatred of such intensity that it can be used to power the Orcs' blasphemous magics of darkness and blood.  If he isn't killed first, his Hatred will likely consume him, driving him to suicide or an insane, bloody fury that will last until somebody else puts him down.

He is still kind of awesome, though.

(At least he's not an Elf )

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"If you fudge dice rolls, your system is failing you!" -Sons of Kryos

"I genuinely think that some people measure their free will by reading how unhappy their GM is." - TonyLB

[dice type=fudge]3dF[/dice]

Okay, he has a healthy libido, he isn't house broke and can he help it if he is ugly.  Its not like he could mark off on a check list what features he wanted.  His diet may not be socially acceptable granted.  Fangs and claws can be good things in certain circumstances.  Most rogue characters gain their reputation with their thieving skills, a good thing among certain classes but to be frowned on by the Orc.  My goodness that seems kind of one sided, biased if you will.  I admit I can't relate to the black magic stuff but hey a balanced world is going to have light and dark, good and evil.  My fighters wouldn't have anything to fight if all the people in the world were good unless he became a terrible bully.  Besides its good to have somebody able to speak to the evil creatures of the night, everybody needs socialization.  As a final thought if I was allergic to the sun I would be a little ornery too.  I like my sunshine. 

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) Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

Old Grump:

As a final thought if I was allergic to the sun I would be a little ornery too.  I like my sunshine.

Oh yeah, absolutely.  There's definitely a level of jealousy in there for the daywalkers.  And I suppose that it's not all inherent, and that much of an Orc's problem is cultural, but it's still a problem.  But again, it depends on what Orcs you're talking about.  If you're talking about D&D Orcs, then yes, I suppose they aren't any "worse" than a community of "evil" humans.

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"If you fudge dice rolls, your system is failing you!" -Sons of Kryos

"I genuinely think that some people measure their free will by reading how unhappy their GM is." - TonyLB

[dice type=fudge]3dF[/dice]

Aww, you're giving up too easy, not supposed to agree with me.  

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) Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

Sure, orcs aren't that bad, if you're a hippie treehugger.  They want to say everyone has feelings, they might have been kicked too hard in the head when they were growing up, they're not allowed any fertile soil to grow crops on, blah blah. 

Orcs are evil because they're ugly and they smell, they eat babies, make their priests poke out eyes, and rape people.  

 

Just because Obama wants us all to play  nice and get along doesn't mean we  have to tolerate orcs too!

 

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Richard M.
Grimfang
"Whisper"
Xaeraes

my sister in law is an ork you @#&$ %#&*

naw just kidding I don't like orks

now its dragons that have the wrong end of the stick if you ask me

he just wants to eat one fair damsel I mean thats reasonable for something its size

Well if I was a politician I would want an army of Orcs for my shock troops because it would be harder to find Human soldiers to do all the raping and pillaging of their own people.  By the same token I wouldn't want an Orc to be my campaign manager.  They might not be socially acceptable in my Aunts parlor but they are honest, they don't hide the fact that they are what they are. 

A human will smile to your face and promise you everyting for your vote knowing he isn't even going to try and deliver on his promise.  Where the Human politican is stabbing you in the back and taking your cow to spread the wealth the Orc will come up and smash your face in then eat the cow.  Not a pleasant outcome but at least honest. 

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) Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

Old Grump has a good point there, at least the Orc has the common decency to say what he thinks to your face (and then smash it to pieces).

The Orc may be not as smart as the other races but he is still honourable (The good/neutral ones are anyway)

Think about, World of Warcraft, The book Orcs by Stan Nicholls and all the people who have ever played the Good Orc Barbarian/Cleric/Fighter/Ranger/Druid/Rogue with a Conscience all portray Orcs as not only people who have had to fight their way through tough times (The whole Fel Orc thing for Warcraft and the way the Orcs in the book Orcs have no choice but to work for someone who couldn't give a damn whether they survive, who only cares about getting what she wants, these Orcs by the way also have a dwarf in their group.), but also as honourable warriors and (Excuse my language) Badasses.

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Shakalablan, for the Greatfather!
LOL OMG WTF DAIRYQUEEN
LOL OMG BB-THE-Q!

Bah!

Orcs, as awesome as they are, are lying manipulative, backstabbing cowards.  They're only "honest" with folks that can't kick their teeth in for it.  Put an orc up against a troll or a well-armed adventurer and, unless he's driven mad with rage or fear, he'll grovel, beg and kow-tow for as long as it take for him to get a chance to shove a jagged, poisoned shiv into their kidneys.

Campaign worlds vary, of course, and perhaps yours has orcs as "noble savages", but I find them far more interesting as horrible, piteous things, filled with a burning hatred for all life, perhaps most especially their own.

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"If you fudge dice rolls, your system is failing you!" -Sons of Kryos

"I genuinely think that some people measure their free will by reading how unhappy their GM is." - TonyLB

[dice type=fudge]3dF[/dice]

ArtMonkey:

Bah!

Orcs, as awesome as they are, are lying manipulative, backstabbing cowards.  They're only "honest" with folks that can't kick their teeth in for it.  Put an orc up against a troll or a well-armed adventurer and, unless he's driven mad with rage or fear, he'll grovel, beg and kow-tow for as long as it take for him to get a chance to shove a jagged, poisoned shiv into their kidneys.

Thats what I mean, whats not to love about a race we can all despise.  There has to be a villain and as villains what's not to love.  Game would be flat out vanilla pudding boring without them.  I would trust an Orc behind my back before I would a greedy money grubbing sycopathic civil servant or merchant.  At least you know what the Orc is going to do.  Our fellow man on the other hand...well you just don't know and I don't much care for that. 

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) Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

Old Grump:

because it would be harder to find Human soldiers to do all the raping and pillaging of their own people...

Ke?

Nah, I know Orcs do that easy! :)
But Humans do not suck at it.

But that is the point, you never know if the Human soldiers are going to be good or bad or good this week but bad next month.  The Orc are consistent, you can depend on them to not only steal your apple pie but to break your oven and burn your apple orchard.  You have to respect consistency. 

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) Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

when you look at humans, you have some good and some bad. But, just like you are hard pressed to find an evil elf (not counting Drow), you  probably won't find very many good orcs. Plus you need a cruel, nasty race for adventurers to fight.